Willem Nyland (1890 - 1975) was a Dutch-born chemist who self-released 16 albums of improvised piano music reflecting his teachings, rooted in the work of Greek-Armenian mystic Gurdjieff. After many years of interest in his work, we were able to contact his family and put together the first reissue of these remarkable and rare recordings, remastered from the original tapes. 

In our humble opinion, no one is better qualified to write about Mr. Nyland’s work and teachings than Matt Marble of the awe-inspiring American Museum of Paramusicology. Across articles, podcasts, books, photos, and albums, Matt dives into the deepest questions pertaining to “spiritual imagination and metaphysical tradition in American music history.” Matt wrote the liner notes to the album, and I called him to talk about what he learned.

Listen to the album here

Cyrus Moussavi: What have you been working on today for the museum?

MM: I've been going through some more obscure aspects of the 'Spiritual church' tradition and processing some recently acquired archival materials. 

CM: I'm amazed by your level of output. It seems like constant dives that would take me years to do. What is your process? How are you approaching this vast field?

MM: A lot of it has been serendipitous, but oftentimes that serendipity comes from diving deep into unknown waters. So I dig a lot through old periodicals, doing obscure searches and collecting rare books and rare materials, and following the little sparks that appear in those materials. It might be a name that’s jotted down that might not have anything to do with what drew me to it, but that might lead me somewhere else. So part of that aspect of the research is always being open to further openings and linkages and discovery. Which I just love. I feel like I’m a cat in the shadows.

CM: That's a beautiful image. I like how your method of research sort of reflects the topics that you're also researching. Tell me about Willem Nyland. Was he on your radar before we worked on this project?

MM: He was on my radar tangentially. I was aware of one record. I’d been waiting to dive into Gurdjieff a little more, having been familiar with Thomas DeHartmann's music. So the opportunity to dive into Nyland was really wonderful, and to spend time with Gurdjieff's teachings, and to interview people who were close with Nyland and close with these teachings was also just amazing.

CM: Can you give us a general feel of what these teachings were about? Is that even possible to do? 

MM: I mean I might not satisfy people more knowledgeable, but I think the most general perspective you can have on it is that this is one of many practical metaphysical philosophies that were rooted in spiritual self-development of some kind. And Gurdjieff's teachings really prioritize breaking down our subconscious or unconscious dependence on habits, habitual behavior, habitual thought patterns. So a lot of his work, through movements, through music, through literature, through what he called “Work”  was about breaking down these habits and becoming present to the self in a broader spiritual sense. Nyland was working within that tradition. 

Something we see a lot of in traditions like Theosophy and Anthroposophy is that once the charismatic originating figure like Gurdjieff (or Blavatsky or Steiner) passes away, his students take the teachings in their own way. And so Nyland in one sense is a back-to-Gurdjieff movement - he really prioritized Gurdjieff's original teachings and writings. However, he added this additional musical aspect through his own playing, which was really unique to his teachings. And that's something that's clearly foregrounded in the album.

CM: In the liner notes, I love your description of an evening with Nyland - first lecturing the group, and then a shot of cognac in Gurdjieff's name, and then piano playing. Can you describe how one of those nights went down, and how Nyland’s music related to his lecture? Was the music a reflection of his words? 

MM: We’re pretty certain that the music was directly reflecting the lectures. One thing that's not very clear is how things were paired up, archivally and chronologically. So that's something that the Gurdjieff communities are still working on. But he would basically present a lecture, typically on themes drawn from Gurdjieff's writings or processing peoples’ questions from the houses that he was working with, and then he would play music. And the music was a non-rational, non-verbal continuation of the lecture that was meant to be processed more intuitively. So they would alternate this rational teaching with this more non-verbal teaching and more intuitive reception, which is a beautiful pairing.

CM: I would love to be in the room for one of those evenings. What do you know about  Nyland’s musical upbringing or background?

MM: He did take lessons as a child, but largely pursued music as a personal practice. I think he just loved music and was drawn to several [classical] composers. But something that's really fascinating about his music is that he wasn't necessarily improvising in the style of the classical repertoire. He was improvising through it, or at the edges of it, you know what I mean? And that's where we hear this strange tension or dissonance in the music that he’s working through. It's almost like he's piercing through the style itself. It's a very unique approach to improvisation, as well as to the classical styles that he’s working off of.

He insisted you just kind of let it happen to you–don’t analyze it. It’s not just the familiarity of the style that’s hitting you, or the beauty of the music. It’s also those raw edges, the nebulous aspects of it that he’s working through live in the moment. That’s what you’re letting happen to you. It can awaken you. Ethel Hemsi, who studied with Nyland, described it as “another world,” or she often used the phrase, “Life itself without form,” which I love.

Cyrus: I guess one place where our work overlaps a lot is this interest in spirituality in music, or spirituality reflected through music. Like the work that we've been doing with Emahoy's music, or the years I've spent thinking about Brother Theotis Taylor and his relationship to the spirit. I wonder if you can talk a bit about how those elements combine in this music.

MM: That's a really central question for me. And part of my motivation or guidance in what I do is acknowledging the fact that spirituality, or metaphysical philosophy, has provided creative agency for artists throughout human history. 

I first came to that realization through studying Arthur Russell and his archives and creative process involving Buddhism. But then looking back in time, we see this all over the place once we start looking. But there’s often not a lot of context. We talk about John Cage and Zen, or we talk about Pauline Oliveros and meditation, Sun Ra and cosmic mythology, but there are often no linkages between them or their influences. The same goes for popular music too. It's not just the Avant-Garde, it’s every genre.. It's Willie Nelson and Christian mysticism. It's all these different connections. 

That’s what really interested me - what is the language that people use to talk about these inner experiences or these non-verbalizable experiences. And metaphysics is the language that humanity has developed to talk about these things and to help us navigate uncertainty, providing creative agency through the use of imagination, symbolism, and intuitive discipline. 

But I'm also interested in exploring how sound and music function within metaphysical philosophy itself. We talk about vibratory theologies, the Logos or the Word of the Bible, or the Nada Brahman of Hindu tradition. So it’s kind of a two-fold approach - looking at the sonorous aspects of metaphysics and how metaphysics directly impacts musical culture and our lives.

Cyrus: Music as a way of expressing a certain spirituality, but also music as spirituality itself.

MM: Well, you know sometimes the term “spirituality” can even be misleading. I guess I’m thinking more in terms of inspiration, something we can all relate to. Like some people might not consider themselves “spiritual people,” right? But everybody needs a little inspiration. I think spirituality, religion, those are the more formal ways that we have found to nurture that aspect of our lives. But I think we're always finding new ways to do that. And that's one thing I love about these esoteric traditions. They tend to be more creative, collage-y, working with what’s around and within you.

Cyrus: As someone who's been studying this field but hadn’t yet gone deep on Nyland and Gurdjieff, what's something that surprised you in your research? 

MM: You know, Nyland used the term “firefly” as a metaphor for his teaching. The idea that not only is the firefly illuminating itself, but through its illumination is lighting the way for others. Nyland was a chemist by trade, right? I kind of instinctively asked, “How does a firefly illuminate itself?” I looked up the chemical, and the name of the chemical is luciferen. It’s named after Lucifer (“Light Bringer”). That relates directly to Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff used Beelzebub, which is a Luciferian figure, as the main figure of his literature and his teachings. And so I suspect that Nyland, as a chemist, was very aware of that connection through the firefly.